How do you market your brand to your team members? Sara McVey, CEO of Sequoia Living, says it’s all about the culture you create. Listen as she breaks down how operators can balance mission, margin, and culture to deliver the best outcomes to residents, families, and teams.

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A special thanks to our BTG Ambassador, Paula Gomez, from Sequoia Living for connecting us with Sara.

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Produced by Solinity Marketing.

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Become a sponsor of Bridge the Gap.

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Listen to more episodes here.

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Intro

Welcome to season eight of Bridge The Gap, a podcast dedicated to informing, educating, and influencing the future of housing and services for seniors. Powered by sponsors Aline, NIC MAP, Procare HR, Sage, Hamilton CapTel, Service Master, The Bridge Group Construction and Solinity. Produced by Solinity Marketing. Bridge the gap in three, two.

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00:36 - 00:56

Lucas McCurdy

Welcome to Bridge the Gap podcast, the senior living podcast with Josh and Lucas here at Spring NIC San Diego. We have a great guest on, you know, we have access to so many big thought leaders here and so many leaders in the industry. And we want to welcome Sara McVey. You're the CEO at Sequoia Living. Welcome to the show.

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00:56 - 00:57

Sara McVey

Thanks. It's good to be here.

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00:57 - 01:24

Lucas McCurdy

So excited. We were fortunate to meet you through one of our very own Bridge the Gap ambassadors. And we heard through the grapevine as we're just getting to know that you're really a champion of culture. And I'd love to learn more about you. The inspiration for you to get involved in senior living. And when did you first understand that culture matters?

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01:24 - 01:50

Sara McVey

You know, I was thinking about that. And when I graduated from high school, my first out of college job was Enterprise Rent-A-Car.m I was in sales and marketing, which that means is that you wear a suit and you go to work and you wash cars, and then you go pick people up and you, you know, give them cars and you talk them into the collision damage waiver, which still to this day, I highly recommend that you get.

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01:50 - 01:51

Lucas McCurdy

She's always selling.

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01:51 - 03:57

Sara McVey

Yeah. And my boss at the time called my house and I was living with my parents because it was my first job. And my mom answered and she said, “Sara phone.” And it came down, talked to them, hung up, and she said, who was that? And I said, that was Doug, my boss. And she said, that's so interesting.

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“He said, ‘You work with him, not for him.’” And I did. It didn't occur to me at the time that that had anything to do with culture. That was a good thing. But my mom was just so impressed by that. And I have thought of that so many times since that time. And I think, you know, I didn't even know that culture was cool at that moment in time.

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But he made me want to work at Enterprise Rent-A-Car, just kind of how he showed up. And I've really kind of pulled some of those principles forward in trying to not be a hierarchical type of organization. It's not about position or title. We're all in this together. You know, we all have hearts. We all have heads. Let's bring them both to the table. You know, in other capacities, as I've been working in senior living for quite a long time. It found me. Wasn't looking. And another organization that I worked with for quite a long time was over a decade in Chicago. And they really invested in understanding culture, understanding people. Creating a movement. And that really got me prepared for where I am now, which is Sequoia Living.

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And we really started our culture work during Covid, and we didn't really know it was culture work. We just were coming together as an organization in such a different way than we had been previously. Solving problems together, coming out of our little silos. We have seven different locations, and we had a call like everybody else did, pretty much every single day. always say Covid for us was good because we really came out the other side a much better, stronger organization.

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03:57 - 05:01

Josh Crisp

I would like to dive into that a little bit more. So first time NIC attendee here at NIC. I have to believe, though I think you all acknowledged you guys came through a very difficult time stronger. But there was probably some fabric you already had woven into place because, you know, I would imagine if you didn't have some of the fundamentals. Right, that would be a type of an event that tears your team apart because we did see that through Covid, that a lot of organizations didn't make it. And then some came out stronger on the other side. You guys were one of those. So, you know, we're here at NIC. It's a lot of transaction talk.

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The debt and equity, the capital markets meet the operators. Everybody realizes the value of that. What we're all here for is because of what happens with the teams at the community. So tell us what that means for you. From a practical blocking, tackling some of the strategies, if you don't mind giving us some insight on that.

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05:01 - 07:34

Sara McVey

For us, it was keep it simple. We actually started our culture work with Gallup, which is  an international company. We worked with them for about a year, and we learned a lot. And what we learned is that it's complicated. And you really need a partner that can distill the complicated into something that anyone in any position can get their heads around.

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So we shifted gears from Gallup to Drives and and Drive’s value proposition is they have worked in the industry and they understand the people, the caregivers, the dishwashers, the facilities person, the valet, the security. And they really helped us make all of this very accessible. I think the other thing, too, is my background is in marketing.

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And so my brain thinks in slogans and mottos in battle cries. And so we didn't hire an agency. We just landed on this mantra of never stop growing. And Sequoia is uniquely positioned to really own that mantra because of the trees. Right. And sequoias are one of the largest trees. In fact, the largest tree can fill like a football field. They're huge. They live for thousands of years, and they're super resilient. And they actually, need wildfires to actually improve their resiliency. The other kind of fascinating point is their roots actually grow out, so they create community around them. So for us, we're like this is so perfect.

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You know, people wanted to do a little wordsmithing, like we should say never. It's so negative. And we're like, no, we need to say a bold statement. So never stop growing for us at Sequoia Living is really about how do we continue to get better at being better than if we decide to grow bigger? We can do it from a position of strength, but it's not. How do we get bigger out of the gate? It's really how do we keep snacking on sacred cows and kind of not white knuckling the status quo type of thing. And that was something that was really accessible to everybody and not just certain positions.

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07:34 - 08:31

Josh Crisp

Well, congratulations, I can tell you're an excellent marketer because that was really not only the meaning and the definition, but how you just unpack that. That was pretty cool. So, one thing I kind of picked up on, I'd love to know your opinion. I think there's a lot of cultural initiatives I've seen. I've tried to implement, you know, through the years, some better than others, but you actually brought in an outsider on more than one occasion. And, you know, it made me think, you know, and probably every other area of our lives or our children's lives, if we want to improve in something we find an expert in, it's a coach or somebody that we hire to to help us and hold us accountable, maybe see things that we can't see. But one thing I have seen I've been guilty of, is trying to identify and fix things on your own and in your own organization. It seems like that was part of a very intentional strategy to get an outsider's perspective.

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08:31 - 10:49

Sara McVey

It takes a lot of humility to go through culture work, because it really holds up a mirror to the behaviors that are stunting your growth. And as a CEO, you have pride, right? You don’t want people to say, well, they're saying this or they're saying that, or they feel like communication could be better or all of those things. You really have to just, like, be a good listener. And, you know, I would say in, in my role, it's not about me leading it. It's about kind of lighting the way. And everyone else really needs to be the lead, like all the other staff really have to be able to lead it. So, you know, there's a whole bunch of things involved in that.

But I think having a third party that comes in and can help you look in the mirror and really see what's there versus you seeing what you want to see. You know, the other thing too, for us is our board got very involved in the culture work and said, you know, how do we get in on this? Never stop growing. What do we need to do?

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And they went through a whole process last year where they looked at policies and onboarding and recruitment for board members and elections and all of those things. And there were no sacred cows. And we kind of threw everything up in the air and came out this year and are doing things in a totally different way. So that really sent a very strong message to the organization that this isn't just the program of the day or the year, that this is really something that, you know, we want to build on it. I think the other part, too, is you have to pay attention to all the things that you've been, hoping nobody sees.

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So a lot of times we have people that are really good technicians. They're subject matter experts. But they can be a little bit of a nightmare as a team member. And, and then you rationalize and you say, but he's so great, you know, he's so like, he really knows his job. And then someone else is like, yeah, that is really hard to work with. So it can't be that you have to embrace the and you have to be you have to have a great attitude and you have to have the right aptitude. You have to have a mission and you have to have margin. It's not a negotiation. So it forces you to stop negotiating with yourself.

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10:49 - 10:55

Josh Crisp

Yeah. So outside organizations should be a top down implementation.

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10:56 - 11:13

Sara McVey

It wasn't exactly top down. We actually went through a value survey where all of the staff weighed in on the values that they would prefer. They were asked three questions. We had 91% participation, which we've never had that level of participation. Yeah.

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11:13 - 11:14

Josh Crisp

That's huge.

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11:14 - 11:36

Sara McVey

Yeah. And they're the ones that came up with the values, the three values. So it's a three word mantra. I never stopped growing. We have three core values now which are not the most exciting. I will say that I was kind of hoping, it is, again, my orientation, that we were going to have these really cool, jazzy, exciting values.

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No, what we have is accountability, caring and teamwork. Which is great because it's not about me. It's about what people are like, hey, this is what I want to see showing up in the culture where I come to every single day. And I'm like, yeah, for sure, let's do it. And what accountability means to me, and you might mean something totally different to our housekeepers or our dining services.

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And that's where the work came into play, was figuring out what that looks like, what a team work looks like, what does caring look like. And that's really the fun part of all of this. It's not just words. It gets translated, translated into behaviors. And so even for our corporate office, it's like, well, what does accountability look like? People are like, well, when you're on a Zoom or a Teams call, turn your camera on. And, you know, like I've said, it's like there's 43 muscles in your face. I need you to use one on the call. Like you're doing right now, smiling. And, you know, sometimes people will just, like, look at you the whole time. It's like, so, is this going in? Are you, like, loving it? Right? How are you feeling? And so it was, it was asking people to show up differently for each other.

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12:48 - 13:01

Josh Crisp

and I would imagine it's a bit of a journey, right. Like how long since you kind of conceived the notion? It's a journey. So how when did you start this? Where are you in the process?

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13:01 - 13:09

Sara McVey

Yeah, we started this about two years ago. I would say we're still really early on in the process. You know, we have culture committees at all of our locations. It is an unfinished process. And you kind of have to be okay with the messiness of it. And kind of the differences from one location to the next, because they all want to, like, do things differently because their locations are different.

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The one unifying concept is the culture, the statement of never stop growing, how it shows up in your communities and your work. On a day that is all you know how it shows up for me. It's, you know, me coming to a conference like this is about me wanting to keep growing and stretching my mind and kind of doing things that I haven't done before and, really be open to being a little intimidated when you walk into a room of like, you know, 500 people you've never met. And I think that's, you know, having been part of an organization that celebrates that and supports that is pretty cool.

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14:05 - 14:08

Josh Crisp

So two years into this forever journey.

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14:08 - 14:10

Sara McVey

Yes. Forever.

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14:10 - 14:26

Josh Crisp

Are you seeing some tangible outcomes that you could put a finger on and say, you know, this, this is helping us in this area, and we think we either are or will see ROI that we can actually share with people. This has made us better.

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14:26 - 16:08

Sara McVey

Yeah. And that's, you know, that's a tricky part of the culture work because it's this invisible DNA of your organization that you have to tease out. And probably two years ago, I was really fixated on, okay, we need to improve our operations so we can control fees and, and then the feed forward that I got from staff is like, you know, you're stressing us out.

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Like we don't want to vote that does not spark joy. And so this last year, 2024, I didn't even talk about it. I talked about, you know, let's recognize this. How are the residents doing? Our staff,who's getting a scholarship, who's furthering their education. It was like I had to really reprogram myself, so I still ask about occupancy.

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Of course, I still want to know how we're doing financially, but it wasn't a lead, sentiment in, my remarks with anybody. And we had the best year ever. Because my energy was going into all of this culture work and was really making sure that when I wasn't standing in the way. Yeah. And to the people that were really driving, it felt like they had the support they needed.

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And I was showing up where, when I needed to show up, because it really is something that's near and dear. I really do believe that you can have a great strategy, phenomenal vision and mission statement. But if you don't have the right people believing that, you know, they're an unstoppable force, you're not going to get very far.

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16:08 - 17:16

Josh Crisp

Well, I think you might be on to, like, a lot of this secret sauce. As I would kind of phrase it. Bridge the Gap, as I would phrase it, between, you never lost the goal of what you need to achieve from a business perspective. But the way you translated that information, the education, the way you influenced it may be semantics. Right. And and different messaging and how you bring that to your team who's got different motivating

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factors right than the transactions themselves. But that's what drives the transaction. Right? Right. And so I think that may be some of the missing ingredients. When you look at an event like we're at right now, where it's a lot of transaction talk, but it's all sort of towards the exact same mission and goal. But how we communicate, it has to be different to the different stakeholder groups. And so, Lucas, we could probably sit here and talk for a long time here. This is a really interesting conversation.

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17:16 - 17:39

Lucas McCurdy

The culture topic is great. And, I really appreciate your insights here. So, final kind of thought or question. Here at NIC a student comes up, NIC brings in some younger, hungry people to come and experience this. And I know that you are, as a part of culture is, recruiting and retention. So what would be your encouragement for somebody that may be here at NIC or listening to our program that's thinking of senior housing as a potential career opportunity. What would you say to them?

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17:49 - 20:05

Sara McVey

We talked about this a lot because a lot of our staff did not wake up and say, hey, I want to work in senior living. Once they do, they're captivated. And, you know, we hear it all the time. It's like, I didn't know that I wanted to do this, but now that I'm doing it, I can't imagine doing anything else.

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I would just say, you know, it's the fastest growing age group. And, you're going to learn a lot because you're around wisdom, you know, every resident, every member, whatever you choose to call them in your organization, they have lived lives in decades that we have yet to experience. And I remember when Covid came around and one of our residents said, you know, she was alive when there was the iron lung and polio. And, you know, those are things that luckily we have not experienced. And they're probably the most generous generation. And, and, you know, where many of us struggle as leaders sometimes to provide feedback and feed forward, that actually helps people grow. I will tell you, you know, I don't know if it just comes with maturity, but they're able to just tell you exactly as it is.

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It's unvarnished and, and, and it's okay. You know, it's kind of refreshing, actually. Yeah. And I always have said even on, like, my toughest days where I, where I'm, you know, maybe delivering news about a fee increase or something that's somewhat unpopular, that, you know, every question I get, every remark, every even what some might call criticism is helping me be an even better version of myself.

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It's like they may not be intending to help me be better. Then that's exactly what's happening. And we're just so fortunate to be surrounded by that. And overall, I would say the people we serve absolutely love the team members and the team members feel that. And I don't know many jobs that you can have where that's the case.

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20:05 - 20:25

Josh Crisp

It's an honor to meet you. Be able to speak with you here. I'm excited to follow you in the journey that you guys are on, shaping a lot of lives, shaping a lot of leaders and culture. It's what our industries are all about and we need. And, so congratulations on all your success and continued success.

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20:25 - 20:27

Sara McVey

Yeah. Thanks for doing this podcast. It's very cool.

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20:27 - 20:43

Lucas McCurdy

Oh, awesome. Well, thanks for your time today. And I know our listeners are going to want to connect with you and Sequoia Living. We'll put a link in the show notes and you can also get a beat voice.com download this content and so much more. Connect to us on LinkedIn. We'd love to hear your comments as well. And thanks for listening to another great episode of Bridge the Gap.

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20:43 - 20:54

Lucas McCurdy

Thanks for listening to Bridge the Gap podcast with Josh and Lucas. Connect with the BTG network team and use your voice to influence the industry by connecting with us at btgvoice.com.